Jawhar Sircar Interview | 'TMC Didn't Act Against Sandip Ghosh, Chastised Me'

Why did Jawhar Sircar quit TMC? Is Mamata govt trying to shield RG Kar principal? Full chat on 'Badi Badi Baatein'.

(Photo: The Quint)

Video Editor: Kriti Saxena

In a jolt to West Bengal chief minister Mamata Banerjee, Rajya Sabha MP and Trinamool Congress (TMC) leader Jawhar Sircar resigned from his post and the party over the handling of the brutal RG Kar rape and murder case.

What triggered his exit? Was the Mamata Banerjee government trying to shield principal Dr Sandip Ghosh? Did the party reject his inputs on objectively dealing with the crime?

In a conversation on 'Badi Badi Baatein', Sircar explains it all.

It is being, perceived to be a big deal politically that you have resigned as the MP and also as the member of the Trinamool Congress, somebody who's seen as a staunch supporter of chief minister Mamata Banerjee and the TMC. But you minced no words in your resignation letter on this state government's handling of the RG Kar case. How long had you been contemplating this move? Was there any specific instance or an issue that first triggered your unease even way before you decided to resign?

There is no hope in Bengal against the BJP, there is no alternative to stopping the BJP other than the TMC, which is the reason why I agreed to join them on their offer. But in the early stages as an MP, about a year later, I came out in the open against corruption that was shown on TV. piles of money, etc. I said this is terrible, this is giving a terrible impression. In Bengal, people are hypersensitive. That's where the difference comes and I said in so many words what I felt like. And I was roundly chastised, of course, saying that 'you're an outsider, you don't know what discipline is within any party'. I couldn't have said the same thing in any other party either.

Was it a specific instance with the RG Kar case when you decided, 'That's it, this can't happen anymore!'?

The RG Kar case is one criminal case that has been, in my opinion, handled very badly. But that alone is not the reason why I left. I left a because I was bit like fish out of water in politics, but I knew it every day. I was feeling that I'm not a part of it. B- the reason for going was to articulate the concerns of Bengal and many other depredations upon nature and other issues, like environment and others, in the Parliament. I have had my fill. I've been able to mention them.

Where all do you think did the handling of the RG Kar case go wrong, be it on the level of the state government or the police or the CBI? What all do you think went wrong according to you?

I think, the worst handling was by the hospital authorities and there are strong allegations against the hospital authorities. That's the first starting point. There was some sort of authoritarian rule, some sort of an improper rule being conducted by the former principal. So he is suspected and he was a bad public figure. But that is where it all started. Then comes the police - the police could have perhaps been more sensitive to the whole thing. There too many rumors and social media visuals flying all around the place. You can't make up your mind whether this is true or not. One sees a picture where all sorts of people were there at the scene who need not be there.

So, these sorts of things - the bad handling, the investigation that was conducted in the early stages, and data is being revealed not at that point but is being revealed almost in installments later. Gives a very bad impression of the conduct of the hospital and police authority.

So, we have a third party who has not intervened, and that is the top level of the state government. You do not let things slide through. You jump in there. I didn't find anybody jumping in from the Secretariat. And after that comes the role of the chief minister, she's at the very top. So the tripod that I'm talking about - the hospitals goof up, the police ineptness at that point of time, and the utter silence and absence of top Secretariat officers - all of them combined put the whole thing on the chief minister.

Did you try to raise these concerns within the party?

I did. I've raised it in public also. Look, I have not been silent personally. If you check my Twitter and the, the statement I gave to ABP on the phone, statement that I gave on phone, I mentioned that suspend this principal straight away, take immediate action against those who have done it. I've been saying things like that even before the CBI took took over.

Was your stand not well-received by the party or the senior leadership of the party?

They took it in but, they, the government had some strategy. Somewhere down the line, somebody must have said or given it an other interpretation, which they believed rather than mine.

You spoke about the Chief Minister. We have been speaking at length with people on the ground, people who are protesting, even women across West Bengal in general. There is a general sense that there was, an attempt to, maybe, shield someone, specifically Mr Ghosh.And this sense is also coming from voters and women who have been staunch supporters of Mamata Banerjee herself and the TMC. Do you think this is going to really impact the state government in the coming days, and has severely dented the state government's image?

I hope not, and the entire the reason for my exercise or my excitement, or whichever way you put it, is to ensure that it does not. Because this party and this political setup is required as a dam against a certain flood. A flood is coming and the only dam that can save it is the present formation. And if that starts leaking water, that's the reason.

What specifically went wrong when it came to handling of the protests? I mean, there have been number of problems that have been flagged with the chief minister's statement itself. Some more harsh than me would also call those statements inhuman and unacceptable in today's day and age and in general, public discourse coming from a chief minister. But what do you think went wrong, specifically when it comes to handling the protest and meeting their demands?

That is exactly the question and the answer. What is it that one single incident of a heinous crime could trigger a million out on the streets? Are there other grievances that are pent up that found an occasion to express themselves? I have said yes to that. That's my interpretation. I don't know whether the government will agree, but I said yes to that. B- are the women of Bengal making a statement because they are one of the most empowered women anywhere in India and have been so. The National Crimes Record has declared Kolkata to be the safest city. So, why is it that they are out on the streets? It is an assertion, a reinsurance of the guarantee policy. It's an occupation of space. Not only the physical occupation, reclamation of the night would be temporal, theblockade of the streets would be spatial. But there is a third dimension to both the temporal and the spatial, and that the ideological space. If I have to go out to work at 8:00 pm and come back the next morning, I have to do it.

And there are many states that would not make it safe. You can't have a Hathras in Bengal, that's what I'm trying to say. You can't rape a Dalit girl and then burn her up and get away with it. You can't string up girls to the nearest tree and get away with it. You can't do these things. That's what they are saying. They want an additional assurance through the Abhaya's gruesome incident, from government and the society also.

Do you personally ever get a sense that there is an attempt to shield Mr. Ghosh?

Well, they didn't act against Dr Ghosh in time. They didn't act, and that's one of my big grievances.

I'm going to pick up from your earlier statement - you said that there was blatant misinformation. There was blatant sensationalism of the issue. There was misreporting of facts that has happened. What is your outlook of the media's reporting of the RG Kar case?

The media has been both alert and sensational. I have handled one of the biggest media in India. Yeah. And I know what is to be put on loop. So, these things, they are part of media practice that you take this byte and and take that file and put it on loop and let it run.

Much of the media has demonstrated a very strong anti-government sentiment. But the point is, are there any reasons for such behavior? Are there any provocative reasons?

The chief minister brought in new laws, some very harsh laws have been brought in to deal with this. But do you think that is enough? Because this is a question that has been asked several times that what has changed after Nirbhaya? What has changed after Hathras? What more do you think needs to be done? Or has the state government done enough in order to address the whole situation?

See, to be very frank, the incidents against Nirbhaya, repetition of incidents like that lies in the training of men in their families. That's the first starting point. We can have laws with the laws of like doors, but what about the room inside? We still go in for this very macho image of men. I remember somebody said during the Nirbhaya incident that 'kids make mistakes'. So these sort of things, and question of tolerating them, is abhorrent.

The Supreme Court is hearing this case, and I'm sure it will come out with pronouncement, and judicial pronouncements are the same as law. So, this one hopefully will lead to a further affirmation, strengthening of the guarantee against atrocities against women.

Do you think in today's politics, whenever a heinous crime against a woman happens - and I'm talking in all my sensitivity regarding each and every state and each and every party and government that is there, that there is a knack to first see what state the crime has happened in, under whose rule it is, and the religion of the perpetrator.

Yes, that's also another very sad thing to happen that these things come out and the religion of the accused, the accused person is brought out as an example of how terrible one community can be.

So, that sort of thing is happening rather than looking at the injustice. Loom at the way the Brij Bhushan Singh's case was handled? This sort of thing would not be allowed in Bengal.

What next do you think the state government, in all its responsibility, needs to do immediately?

First is to come to an understanding with the agitators. There are voids, they have to be explained, they have to be given the confidence that it's not fudged, that people will be punished and these are the proofs.

If the test of the DNA of the semen proves that one person did it, then there is no point in claiming to doctors that there were multiple people. You know, you have to come out with convincing modern proof that we have tried our best and reach out to an understanding, not take it as an irritant, not take it as a challenge to the government. That is the reason why I had to take an extreme step.